Trout Creek
This year we took our survey to Facebook, to get some input and comments about the changes the government has made to Bill 52 and Bill 15. We received a lot of responses and a lot of great comments. We have published a few in the print edition of the magazine, the rest are available to read in this post.
We Asked & You Answered
Bill 52 - Are you in favour or against the changes? Regarding: removes the ability for an ALR owner to have a secondary, non-farm use modular dwelling for immediate family.
Bill 15 – Are you in favour or against? Regarding: make it harder for farmers to have value added operations and sell directly to the public as farm-to-table enterprises. Reverts to a more centralized commission as opposed to six regional panels, exclusions for ALR to be submitted to the ALC by local governments, First Nations or the province instead of by landowners.
100% Against
Facebook Quiz
Have you attended or plan to attend any of the government engagement meetings?
Do you sell value-added products or have other business on your property?
Facebook Survey 2
What type of crop or farm do you have?
Facebook Survey 3
What region in BC do you farm in?
Vancouver Island 31 %
Lower Mainland 16%
Okanagan16%
Cariboo Chilcotin 9%
Thompson Nicola 8%
Kootenays 7%
Omineca Skeena 7%
Peace River 1%
Fraser Valley 1%
COMMENTS
COMMON SENSE
■ If the bill just stopped dumping of industrial waste or reduced house sizes not many farmers would complain. But this bill went too far and unfairly penalizes farmers across BC for Lower Mainland issues that could have easily been solved by updating local municipal bylaws.
FAMILY
■ Strongly against - I want to be on our land as I age, or for my elderly mother currently. Also, I wish to be able to give my children the opportunity to live on our land to aid in this housing crisis. We are a tight-knit family and wish to be near each other... our land is more than large enough to accommodate small houses for us all around the edges in the non-farmable rocky areas. I strongly don't believe that we should be limited to equity-devaluing modular homes for family - they have the right to a solidly constructed, equity-enhancing dwelling.
RETIRING FARMERS
■ This has devastated our retirement planning. We purchased our property in 2011 with the understanding that we would be able to have a home for ourselves and a home for a tenant who would assist with the work and also help me as I unfortunately am not in good health and by the time we retire, I most certainly will need assistance in order to age in place. We have budgeted and saved and planned for events to unfold five years from now. Then they change the rules arbitrarily. I tried to get a secondary residence built as quickly as possible but we were not able to get our building permit until after the Feb. 2019 deadline. To compound things further, on the advice of our accountant, we incorporated the farm, so that makes application all the more difficult. There seems to be no possibility of application to the ALC as corporations cannot by definition have a "family member".
■ We are nearing retirement and would like family to be able to take over and live in our home and build a smaller one close by so we don't have to move, or live with them as our house is only 1000 square feet. We don't think it is appropriate for the government to say what we can or cannot do on private land. There is no senior housing available in our area - as in much of BC - even in the Lower Mainland cities (on the best farm soil in BC) are now encouraging and approving laneway housing.
YOUNG FARMERS
■ I'm a young farmer starting out and have parents on farm to help. If we were to build a second home for our aging parents it would have to be in the 'non ALR' land portion of our property which has no access, power, or water. This farm has been in a farm since 1901 and hasn't needed any regulations to keep it that way. They assume much to dictate how a farm should be operated. Each site and operation requires close, first hand knowledge of the operations to decide proper placement of infrastructure. If they want to increase food production and food security, do so by incentivizing farming, not by restricting farmland use. If they want to protect farmland in Richmond, for example, have local bylaw restrictions for building on land that was classified as a farm beforehand and make decisions on a case by case basis for those. One size does not fit all and the rest of BC is paying the price.
LESS GOVERNMENT
■ This is a HUGE mistake by the Government!! Anything that can be done to add value to a farm is a "good" investment. It is hard enough to be a farmer with all the cheaper food being imported. Also why would anyone think that a centralized commission be better. The Farmers of BC are as different as the lands they are farming. If you don't support the Farmers of today, there will be no farmers for tomorrow!!
■ The main issue I find with the ALR land commission is the fact that they are a nanny state organization. To begin with a few regulations are understandable. For example in the lower main land where farms are smaller the practice of placing large homes on these ALR parcels is understandably not wise. Good farmland is being covered by subdivisions ,mansions and even factories. But in the vast majority of areas across BC we have large farms with huge areas of forest, pasture, and land space that could easily have two or three family homes positioned on a large farm that would have no effect on limiting farming practices. Families of European heritage who pioneered Canadian lands have typically clustered together since the late 1600s as a form of sharing the work load and keeping families knit together. This is an efficient and healthy way to continue farm productivity and promote family unity on Canadian land. The ALC is blanketing regulations to be applicable to all farms regardless of size or location across the entire province. The new regulations are beginning to squeeze farmers by use of taxes, and legislation to the point we will all be forced to get off farm land if this keeps up. We personally own our land outright, hold a deed and pay our taxes. So who’s land is this then? The ALCs or ours? They can come on our property at any time without a search warrant, demand information, fine us for having a holiday trailer parked in our drive way and literally control our lives. This is sliding into communism. The ALC needs to be stopped before they eliminate farming in BC. As I said above some minor regulations are understandable and would be considered fair by most but now the ALC is stepping on feet, pushing unreasonable constraints and hurting farmers. Nanny state on steroids!
BILL 52 - Please let us know how this would affect you. Are you near retirement age or want to live on the farm with your family? Or other reasons you are for or against.
We didn't have room in the magazine for all your comments so here are the ones we missed...
The Farm is owned by 5 siblings, so having a second home for one of the owners would be desirable.
So ridiculous..land owners are so mistreated...they should be able to have as many dwelling needed...to keep land and make a income on it.
Additional income. These changes make it harder for small farms to retain their land. Small farms are a cultural and social commodity worth saving. It helps keep people in touch with the land and their food.
It was always our intention that family be welcomed here is circumstances necessitated. My parents are aging and we would prefer they reside on the property and we care for them. We had also hoped that one of our children would take over for us but now we will need to leave our home to make that happen. We have a small cottage that has been on the property since the early 80s but if a renter causes major damage, we can't replace it ... so it will be repurposed and no longer offered as affordable dog friendly housing (in an area with close to 0% vacancy).
Have older mobile used for handicapped brother. At present it is rented but we expect grandson to move into it soon to help us out. We spent whole lives turning 600 acres of trees into good farm land. Now at 72 and 77 years old, we are unable to keep up. We have built our home here and don' t ever want to leave. In order for a family member to continue farming there needs to be a second residence. The current mobile is old and needs replacing with a decent home. If this is not possible with the new regulations, There will be no one to farm our land and it will quickly grow back to trees and be lost to agriculture.
Strongly against. If either of my dwellings (both house immediate family and are conforming/grandfathered in) are destroyed by fire or earthquake, I cannot replace that dwelling. That means either myself, working on the farm, or my mother are displaced and it also means I lose a ton of money in the value of the house that I purchased - but we still have to have and pay for insurance. We all work on the farm and are trying to improve soil and more, but we are not nearly big enough to “qualify” for a second residence under this new regime. We would have to somehow find some other place to live after losing all that money (with zero vacancy in the area, and probably worse with new ALR rules), and commute to our own farm? It’s ludicrous.
Planned on having father live in small house until he passes then it was to be for farm hand.
We do not have children. We don’t have aging parents that want to live on our farm. We DO have a woman friend and her adult daughter with Lyme disease (both are on disability) that have been searching for 5 years for a home to rent on acreage without any luck. Her husband is super handy, can fix anything. They love it here. We would put a modular here for them if it were allowed. My husband works away from home in order to pay the mortgage. Once he retires we will sell our farm as we won’t have the income needed to stay. Pooling our resources with another couple would be a win win for us AND we could grow our farm.
It would not allow succession planning to pass the ranch to our children or us to stay her in our retirement years which was the plan Also in the mean time when we need farm labour can’t house staff so not able to attract help More regulation equals less production and the disappearance of the small farm and local food security Please stop with all the red tape governments Listen to the people in the trenches.
We are a 4th generation farm. My great grand parents bought it in 1952. When the land was bare and full of rocks, they worked the land into a full production orchard and in areas where trees wouldn’t prosper they had livestock. My daughter and son hope to take over the business and add their own ideas to the farm. They currently help and work the farm (they are 16 and 22) they hoped to build a 2nd small house on the property in the future. So they can continue to carry on strong family values and keep the farming tradition alive for the next generation.
Against the ALR. Against rules and regulations and bylaws and bills that restrict farming in any way!!
These rules are disgusting. We have a housing crisis throughout the province. Issues caring for sick elderly and disabled. And here we are being forced by government to kick our families off our farms. Send retired farmers of their land. And tear down small rental accommodations. Not to mention. Mortgages that were obtained because of the extra housing that will never be able to be rebuilt should it be damaged. Insurance policyholders that will be a mess. Can you imagine your home burns down and now you have to tear down your secondary residence or mobile home as well just so you can rebuild the primary.
My mother is retired and recently separated. She is type 1 diabetic and needs help monitoring her blood. She helps with childcare and grounds and home maintenance while I build and run the farm. My current dwelling is falling apart and would need to be torn down if I wanted to replace it which makes monitoring my farm and livestock 24/7 difficult.
Live on farm with family or others for help , government has no business telling us who can live on our property . Will be very hard to make a go of property in retirement due to changes.
The land my parents own is ALR and I'm a Red seal Carpenter who would like to build my own home on my own land that's been in my family for the last century.
I have family on ALR who is directly effected, she is at retirement age and her husband is now in a home, she can longer manage the farm on her own, but had planned to retire in place and have her grandson farm and learn from her, and take over, but since she is no longer permitted to have a small carriage house to retire in, she now intends to stop farming and simply live out her days in her home.
We need to have more family members able to support the growth of the farm operation and need to be able to have full properly built home for them on the property. We are in late 50's and figure each individual on the property will support about $40,000 in gross revenue. We need to have room for four full time people in separate home on building to get to our next level of activity and revenue. Paying for outside wages for people that live off site is not workable economically or logistically as we have a diversified farm and with animals you need to be ready to act 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days per year. Off site workers can not do this.
I am second generation, participating in succession, farming member of a farming family. Our patriarch is our mentor & guide, we have every right to keep our mentor in his own home as the second generation take on more of the responsibility & increase our capacity & production.
It is no ones business who lives on my land as long as most the land is for farming.
I am retired. Would not effect my lifestyle on small acreage, but understand how it is detrimental to others. Future disposition of my property, may be undesirable to sell because of this rule & being in alr. Rule did not exist 30 yrs ago when I purchased the property.
There is a final date of February 22, 2020 to ask for permission for a permit on a secondary home. It is impossible for us to get farm status prior to this date. We have recently purchased land in ALR prior to the passing of Bill 52 in February of 2019. There was no time limits placed on when one could ask permission on a secondary dwelling prior to Bill 52. Our land is bare land . Our well was placed in August of 2019. We received the permit to build our primary home in September and we are still waiting for BC Hydro to place power poles. We are in our 50’s so at some point we may need help either family or farm hand to help us out.
I am 66 yrs. old. My Husband passed away a few years ago. My intention was to have my Son and his family move onto the farm and take it over. But now with the new rules in order to pass the farm down to my son, I would have to move off my property that my Husband & I have farmed for 32 years. His Ashes are spread here. I don't know where I will go??? I am so stressed out over this I am feeling sick!!
The farmers are the ones that have a vested interest in the land......would farm if viable business could be found for under 5 acres and the investment made was supported with less restrictions. As far as the restrictions from Bill 52, who in their right mind would invest $300,000.00 to put in the infrastructure needed, plus the expense purchasing a double wide, with the possibility, if it should burn down, you would be out of pocket......what insurance company would provide coverage.......and what bank would agree to lending you money for such a deal. This is already absurd, then add on the fact your investment will depreciate. Any house in this day and age is truly movable......truly this Bill is ridiculous. We don't need 20 room Mansions, but where I live this is not a problem and again if farming is profitable, said land will take care of itself. We don't need the ALR and the regional district....too much bureaucracy.
Plan to move onto acreage where daughter and husband live. IF we are approved to bring a mobile on, we might not be able to get replacement insurance, and possibly could not rebuild if disaster strikes our house! We are getting old and have health issues and would like to be close to family and medical facilities, yet be able to assist with their small farm.
We have two houses on our property, which gives us extra income from rental and an extra hand when needed.
Bill 52 affects the liquidity and market value of my property. This reduces my net worth and thereby my future standard of living. I regard this as a theft of past earnings that were invested in my residence, farm buildings, and farmland.
If my second building, our workshop/suite was destroyed, we would not be able to run the farm.
We are nearing retirement. Our youngest child shows interest in owning the farm. We are unsure whether or not to encourage him. The alr is to much of an unknown and has restricted what we may have done ourselves over the years.
We purchased a farm with my parents with very old existing houses (very much pre-ALR) that are rentals, as well as my parents living in one. We need to rebuild the primary residence for our family but the new regulations tell us we need to remove them before we can rebuild, including our fully Renovated parents house.
We are multi generations that wish to live on the same property.
We have 79 acres. Daughter wants to farm and we want to stay. Applied for family subdivision and was denied.
We are almost at retirement age and will be at the mercy of the gov't for our incomes. After working all our lives to build our dream here on the farm, we will be forced off the farm without some rental income of some sort. Dozens of people have asked us if we have something to rent where they can learn about farming too. We have lots of land that is sloped and forested which could be utilized for a couple of tiny homes or RVs but are not allowed. Our whole lives have been about pouring money into infrastructure so that we can farm full time. Now time is running out. All for nothing if we can't afford to stay home and increase production.
We are nearing retirement and would like our son to have his own house on the home place, leaving the rest of the land to be farm land only.
Its not just about the housing and people need to QUIT making it that way....our farms have been bought/ paid for...paid tax etc....how dare Lana Popham and the NDP come along and think they can treat us as if we don't own it.
We purchased the land for retirement purposes and due to the size, acknowledged that one of our dwellings was required to be removed however NOW the ALC is demanding we remove ALL structures in order to obtain a building permit. The property is far too small in order to provide a living for farming and is merely a HOBBY FARM thanks to the short sighted subdivision (LEGALLY) by the original owners and the Township of the day. LAND CANNOT BE CONVERTED TO FARMING! HOW MANY OTHER PROPERTIES FIT INTO THIS CATEGORY?
If the bill just stopped dumping of industrial waste or reduced house sizes not many farmers would complain. But this bill went too far and unfairly penalizes farmers across BC for lower mainland issues that could have easily be solved by updating local municipal bylaws.
Mortgage is still active, insurance and family living quarters are threatened.
We are 3 generations of family members and some of us will now have to leave the farm. We are devastated.
I am a prospective farmer on a small parcel of raw land. I have been impacted greatly by Bill 52 because I needed the stability through the financial support the modular for my Mom was going to provide. However, now that having the modular would put risk onto my primary residence my plans to farm have been stalled indefinitely while my family tries to make new plans.
Want to stay on my farm when I retire (5 to 10 years) and lease the main house and farm out while I live in secondary accommodation - I have no family in this country.
I couldn't stay on the farm with my kids when I can't do the work.
Puts succession plans in jeopardy. Serious gov over reach thanks to the academics at KPU and this idiotic government.
My wife's mother is disabled, but she still wants a semblance of independence. We want her to live in our mobile home so that she has that ability, and we can still look after her when she needs us.
Wanted accommodation for agri tourism and for for farm helpers. Can’t. Have 200 acres. Wanted to build farm helper accommodations for part time nor full time helper. Can’t. No flat space to park a mobile if I could afford a full time helper, and would would I get a mortgage or insurance for a temporary pad? Can’t. I wanted to do farm workshops. Teach people how to get back to the land. Maybe corporate team building workshops. With accommodation on site. Can’t. Wanted to do secondary processing. Can’t. Wanted a specialty meat shop on site. Can’t. Wanted to subdivide where the county road divides the property for kids. Can’t. Want to live my life out here. Will eventually need a care aid or kids on site. Can’t.
We are unable to have our son and his family join our farm as part of our succession planning. Our Retired Farmer has lived here for over twenty years and now her ability to remain in situ is in jeopardy.
Wanted a home for my children on the property, currently has a mobile which has been disallowed as a secondary because of an addition to it.
BILL 15 - Are you in favour or against? Regarding: make it harder for farmers to have value added operations and sell directly to the public as farm-to-table enterprises. Reverts to a more centralized commission as opposed to six regional panels, exclusions for ALR to be submitted to the ALC by local governments, First Nations or the province instead of by landowners.
We didn't have room in the magazine for all your comments so here are the ones we missed...
This is MY LAND! I am A PERSON!
It makes no sense that the local government could exclude my farm from the alr, without my permission!
Let them have pubs / restaurant/ storage unit ..anything they see fit to do on there property..they pay taxes on.
This makes it harder for small farms to retain their land. Small farms are a cultural and social commodity worth saving. It helps keep people in touch with the land and their food.
Ever heard the saying, 'How do you make a million dollars at farming? Start with two million.' We need value added as farming is speculative amd poor paying.
I would guess my local government has better things to do then argue or plead my case to a centralized ALC (who probably could not find my farm on a map if they tried).
I believe there are very few self sustainable farms in BC. Most need to support or supplement the farm with outside income. If they can do it right from the farm, more power to them. Here in theCentral Interior, the land is not as productive as land in the Fraser Valley. Although we farmed 600 acres and ran a 50 head cow calf operation, This could not support itself. I worked in town and He operated a Drywall business from the farm. Very few farmers in this area could actually support themselves from the farm. Many work in the logging industry and need to store their machinery on the farm. I believe many of the decisions regarding use of farm land should be handled regionally following ALC guidelines but using a BIG dose of common sense.
Strongly against. Now we have next to no ability to speak up for ourselves and the land we purchased and live on, and two governments to try and navigate? This is criminal.
We as a 4th generation farm rely and need value added products or we wouldn’t have survived to this day! I believe anything that promotes agriculture should be allowed!!!! Since when has Canada turned into a communist country. We as farmers are smothered in regulations after regulations! Why are they trying to make criminals out of honest hardworking farmers? We work day and night to provide the country with food, clothing etc! And all we receive is disrespect! My family has fought long and hard to continue farming into this day and age.. blood sweat and tears and what this government is doing to us has to stop.
Alr /alc want small farms to be consumed by big agri. Devaluation of land removal of homes and families. Diversity of products banned. All in the name of mono culture, global export and factory farms.
This will limit small farmers with little or no access to big industry from continuing their sales. Alienating farmers from the public is what led to the decline in farming in the first place. Local eating is healthy for the environment, economy, and the general population and should be encouraged.
Strongly against these changes .
Research continues to show that more productivity happens when flexibility increases and micromanagement decreases. One centralized commission is a poor idea, that in no way can meet the needs of a diverse community. As for value added, farm to table enterprises, those should be the backbone of agri(culture) they are the reason folks get into farming, they are what show off the best of what farming is all about. They should not only be allowed but widely encouraged.
The number of farmers in BC has dropped from over 80,000 to about 20,000 since the ALC / ALR was started in the 70's. The Canadian border has been opened to foreign low labour foodproducts. Farms need as much support to diversify their revenue base as possible. Example: in Germany to support all their farmers the government allowed farmers to install large solar panel renewable energy systems on their farms and sell the power to the utility at the same high rates as the run of the river for 20 years. This has stabilized and allowed the farms a base revenue to allow them to grow and not be stressed with all the many variables in farming as well as the additional climate changes that are here now. Focus on the farmer.
This regulation does not support food security in remote regions/ regions beyond the island/mainland/okanagan.
None of govt alc buisiness. They don’t own the land!
Let farmers have the freedom to share their product as they see fit.
More so than in the lower mainland, a lot of the local businesses in BC rely heavily on summer tourism income to get through the winter. Restricting or limiting Agri-tourism will have more impact on local economies than they realize and condensing the regional panels to a more centralized commission will greatly take away from knowledge of local issues. As with bill 52, one size does not fit all and the rest of BC will pay the price.
ALC, from my experience seems to operate on approval for those with deep pockets and connections. Not sure this is gonna fix this.
Concerned about giving local government power to apply to exclude my land from ALR against my will.
Bill 15 reduces the earning potential of my property as well as reducing liquidity and market value. This reduces my net worth and thereby my future standard of living. I regard this as a theft of past earnings that were invested in my residence, farm buildings, and farmland.
Land owners should have the rights over their land. I believe this is what first nations are fighting for as well.
There are critical differences in the regions that have to be recognized. Small farming is so difficult and it is a NECESSITY to have value added operations in order to make ends meet.
The more locally based decisions are the better. In our case the community planning group and regional district thought our application was reasonable.
We, the farmers, must be supported by gov't in order for us to feel confident that we can make a living on our land. This is private investment on gov't controlled land. Doesn't make us feel safe about investing in our own farm businesses. Whipping us into growing more carrots will only drive us away. No food security without happy farmers.
We are already seeing inequity with the decision making.
This is nothing but COMMUNISM!!!! HOW DARE ALL OF YOU !!!!!!
First Nations will do as the please thanks to the NDP recognizing them as another level of government. Don't kid yourself but they will not adhere to the ALC or ALR conditions given they don't recognize building regulations on reserve lands now. Talk about a double standard. (I've lived/worked on reserve lands and saw first hand the abuses of communities to ignore regulations that ALL other residents are lawfully required to adhere too.)
At no point should a government remove a class of people as persons under the law. This is abhorrent to remove farmers as persons under the law. Removing a farmers right to petition the ALC directly and also to appeal decisions is unlawful and against human rights. This is our privately owned land.
Extremely against bill 15. We have a real struggle trying to make a profit with our farm. As a business it is labour intensive, capital heavy and limited income. To survive we NEED value added possibilities.
Due to the haste and chaos that Bill 52 created I do not trust anything to do with Bill 15 or the new "lens" the Commissioner's are looking through.
I’m against making anything harder for farmers.
This is communism, this is against everything we are supposed to be standing for in this country. Central planning by gov't has been proven over and over that it does not work. Leave us to do our work, farm our land, and we will be in good shape.
I wanted to subdivide where a road dissects for my kids. can’t.
It removes my fundamental right as a property owner from being able to represent myself to the ALC. Further, regional ALC boards could make decisions based on their particular knowledge of the needs of the region, whereas a provincial board has no idea what my regions requirements are.
BC is so diverse. How can one commission made up of appointed people decide what should happen in an area they may never have seen. The present commissioners have a vested interest in keeping their jobs and are cannot be unbiased. The day when a citizen cannot speak directly to something that concerns his or her livelihood is a sad day for democracy. The day when a group of commissioners has a set of ideas on what is or isn't real farming and can interpret it however they like- that day stifles initiative and forces people to work outside of the law. Not conducive to providing food.
The bureaucracy and removal of property owner rights is outrageous.
